that is why in the united states congress earlier this year, a bipartisan majority said we need to extend those tax credits. the oil industry, the gas industry, but coal industry and the nuclear industry have benefited from tens of billions of dollars of subsidies for many years. it is time to get a level playing field. in the meantime, we are playing catch up for the energy of the future. we will not run out of wind or solar. eventually, we will run out of oil and coal. the others will get cheaper. if you go to california or nevada or colorado, those are the energy future -- that is why there is bipartisan support for the clean energy credit. host: gene clearly did not answer your question, which was could the solar and wind sources work without subsidies? guest: we do not find them working without subsidies anywhere purified natural gas and petroleum working fine without subsidies. that is the oil companies get tens of billions of dollars of subsidies per year. that is not right. even to get the $4 billion the president talks about, you get all that from section 199 tax credit. that goe